They just make your muscles recover faster from being beat, injured , and sore.

Like " NATURAL" Andro Max which is not an Anobolic Steroid.

Everyone is in this Idiot Fantasy Land that only the juice made him hit home runs.

Its time to get your heads out of your AZZ's , that didn't do it.

LMAO,,, Geeeee, wheres the "Home Run Hitting Steroid Juice". Freakin Idiots. lol

It's sort of a shame because he was a Hall of Fame player before he started hitting homers by the gazillions. One wonders how many of the line drive doubles he used to hit might have been turned into homers by steroids.

The fastest documented clock pitch is said to be 103, from a few sites I checked on

I always heard JR Richard threw one 111, but there's apparently no documentatiom

Congratulations Barry.

Or are you referring to the speculation that the trainer guy, who is not talking, will give up Bonds if they keep him jailed long enough and offer him enough goodies and threats?

Or.. will just any testimony do? If that is the case, just read some of these posts and viola! He's guilty!!! Actual proof be damned.

Sadly, the 'everybody does it' has become the justification for just about everything these days.

Not, under any circumstances, is this joker a hero. Whether he's juiced or not, he's a jerk to the fans, press, etc. How about some common decency and graciousness? Perhaps he could take a lesson in grace from Mr. Aaron.

Definitely not the kind of 'hero' I want my children idolizing. Even IF he is clean, he is so rude, condescending and arrogant that he is not a suitable role model for anyone.

Never in the anals of human endevor has such an achievement been wrought with so much acrimony and hyperbole that it pales in contrast to every Paris Hilton newsflash.

Folks, it's a sport. Nobody died and nobody was injured. there are far more important issues to get livid about than the allegations surrounding the cause of Mr. Bonds increase in hat size as his testicles decrease in size. Besides, as far as I can tell, if he's guilty of steroid abuse then a large majority of atheletes are probably as guilty. As John Kruk said last night on ESPN, if they go after Barry for steroids then they must also go after many more players. Welcome to the new age of the bottom line of ethical values.

At the same time I do listen to the news and am aware of what goes on.. To me Barry Bonds is nothing and when I saw Hank Aaron concede his record I felt sad.

Mr. Bonds, his family and friends can carry around all the pride they want to, but he knows in his heart he is a cheater.

We're so desparate for heros in this country we're willing to accept any fakir that comes down the pike.

And no I didn't make a mistake, or mispell a word.

We're so desparate for heros in this country we're will to accept any fakir that comes down the pike.

And no I didn't make a mistake, or mispell a word.

Until there is PROOF, he should be considered innocent. That is the American way, that is the fair way. Besides that, there is no known chemical, NONE, NADA, that can give a person the amazing hand eye coordination required to put that little cylinder of wood flush on the sweet spot of a 95 MPH fastball.

CONGRATULATIONS BARRY!!!

The old "everybody does it" excuse.

One cannot say that everyone cheats. One can say that everyone who says everyone cheats, cheats!

Other than Ruth and Maris everyone who has hit over 60 is a suspect and for good reason. Sosa blew up physically just like Bonds and McGwire.

It wasn't Ty Cobb who said that. It was none other than Babe Ruth that said Joe Jackson was the best natural hitter in the game.

High praise indeed.

Alex Rodriguez uses steriods because he's talented and has a physique that you and most of us don't have? Wait, wait, I taped a pair of wings to my back so now I can fly. See how the logic doesn't quite follow?

How about Ken Griffey Jr.? Is he juiced because he's hit 589 HR? Really, think about it. Without his injuries he'd be at close to 700 HR. But he's juiced too, right?

Please don't disparage the talents of athletes because you feel your talent is inferior. Please don't say that everyone cheats because you would if you could. Please don't disparage other's efforts because you would like to feel superior to them or others.

The preceeding also goes for all of you who are saying Bonds is a hack. He's not. You know it, we all know it. No matter what he may have done or not done, he is still a talented athlete. Steroids can't substitute for natural ability.

"The one constant through all the years, Ray, has been baseball. America has rolled by like an army of steamrollers. Its been erased like a blackboard, rebuilt, and erased again. But, baseball has marked the time. This field, this game, is a part of our past, Ray. It reminds us of all that once was good, and could be again."

--Terence Mann (James Earl Jones) - Field of Dreams

Do I believe that he has used steroids over the past several years? Yes.

However, the fact remains that even without the performance enhancers he is a great athlete who has insane natural talent. Anyone that can hit a baseball at all, no matter how far, has a talent that 99.99% of the rest of us can only imagine.

I give Bonds his props now, because the reality is in 10 years or so Alex Rodriguez will be passing Bond's record. Heck, if Ken Griffey Jr. can stay healthy he still has an outside chance of passing Bond's record.

and he was the single best player to ever play the game. He was also a very good pitcher for 8-10 years BEFORE the Yankees

got him and moved him to 1b/outfield so he could play more often. Hank Aaron was given the pleasure of being a designated hitter - just to run up the total. Had Ruth been playing every day instead of pitching every fourth or fifth game, Aaron and Bonds wouldn't have to worry - they would have never been able to match his numbers - drugs and/or designated hitter, it would still have been impossible.

I know Bonds has the numbers, but they don't mean much anymore because of how he got those numbers. In a way, it's kinda sad - he is a good player; just got caught up in the thinking like Santa - EVERYONE DOES STEROIDS - look what this quaint American thought process cost us!!! Get high and watch something else - baseball has been ruined.

Anyway, thanks for the argument, it's nice to see someone still recognises one of our country's problems and is willing to call us out on it.

Until our next meeting =).

I'm a baseball guy. I'm definately a stat guy. I think I can challenge you in a good old fashioned baseball trivia game and give you a run for the money. :-)

Again....i'm not a Bonds fan but I think he's still a HOF player and deserves credit. Much of the hatred for him comes from the fact that he's an a-hole. The fact that he's black exasperates the hatred more than it would anyone else.

I may be wrong but I don't think so.

Either way I like talking baseball. A nice change of pace.....plus I like a good debate.

It took Bonds 20 years to do that.

Who has ran the fastest 100 meter, or the one mile, how many even know there names... baseball is just basball

Cycling has turned into the dirtiest sport to date....both atheletes are in the same boat as I see it. Both have aligations of steroid use yet both athletes are looked at differently.

Also, your concept of pitching in Aaron's era is hysterically wrong. Did you realize MLB lowered the height of the mound after 1968? Why? Because the commissioner determined that the PITCHERS HAD AN UNFAIR ADVANTAGE. So during most of Hank Aaron's career (1954-1976), he was effectively handicapped by the higher mound.

Sound to me like Bonds' home run record deserves TWO asterisks. One, for the lower mound, the other for being a total steroid and HGH abuser.

Randy

If McGwire had broken that record today he would have seen the same disaproval as Bonds.

Not much of a dream, really.

It was VERY ironic when Reagan made Schwarzenegger head of the President's Council for Physical Fitness right after rumor had it Arnold had been a steroid user.

No wonder people think it's OK...

(Has anyone else noticed Arnold's brow shrinking these last few years?)

Maybe because I thought you didn't address my points properly....

What Armstrong has as shown by medical tests is lungs and lung capacity larger than normal for his size. Endurance sports like bike racing require more and/or better use by the body of oxygen. Though different than normal all medical reports indicate that increased ability and size in Armstrong is natural and not drug enduced.

When Mark McGwire broke the record, he was celebrated as a hero. When Barry Bonds broke it? People like you are apathetic to it.

Let's see, how many guys hit 60 or more homeruns (prior to 1995) in a season? 2 in 60 plus years(Ruth in 1927, Maris in 1961).

From 1998 to 2001, it was accomplished 6 times. Go figure.

Also, look at the number of ballplayers that had career years way above their norm(Luis Gonzalez hit 57 in 2001).

(I don't believe a lower mound helped them that much.

Unfortunately for Bonds baseball does not test in the same manner. Armstrong won nearly 100 stages of the Tour De France and each stage winner is tested. In addition there are random tests during the race of many riders and tests at non competative times. Armstrong passed every test and you can see his body is not different than others as you find with people like Bonds.

Anyone who can pass that many tests is clean and that is what Armstrong is the most proven clean for drugs athlete in history. That is why he is celebrated and Bonds isn't since Bonds has only his say so to prove him clean.

I also love how people are claiming they know whether Bonds could hit off pitchers from past decades. You don't know that anymore than how to analyze a poll. And with regards to your comment, "So you're saying Bonds didn't work hard?"

If someone studies hard for a test enough to get an 85, but they want an "A", so they cheat off the guy next to them to get a 94%, they're still a cheater and any teacher would give them a 0 regardless of how har they worked.

Please do your best to comprehend this analogy.

Now, let's see Bonds do that and still play.

Maybe if you actually look at the world critically and don't jump to the first conclusion that pops in your head, you could understand there could be underlying factors that affect data.

Statistics are a little bit more complex than, "oooo ooo numbers!"

They were definitely the best I ever saw in person.

Bonds would have hit those guys too.

So you're saying Bonds didn't work hard?

There is nothing inconsistent about my statements. If Mark Maguire were breaking the record, there would be minimal support from both sides. If you haven't figured it out, due to racial segregation and other bars put on blacks throughout time in a sport as old as baseball, the record books and hall of fame are predominatly whites. The black community, as it should, openly supports its members making important and historical marks, like Barry Bonds breaking this record. Being in the black community is something that is celebrated amongst them and I think their unity is reflected somewhat in that poll.

Believe what you want, but my belief is that not only did most players use enhancements of some kind in the mid 90's(post 94s strike era)until 2002, or so(testing started), but MLB knew it and allowed it. They wanted the fans back at the park. Money trumps all in business.

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For a start, that is an unqualified, assinine statement to make and absolutely untrue. EVERYONE does NOT use steroids!

So is it your opinion that using anabolic steroids is acceptable?

Did you/do you use them?

In your opinion what is the difference between using steroids and shooting dope in your arm?

************

"How many pitches do you think hank aaron saw IN HIS LIFETIME that went 95 mph, let alone 3 foot curve balls going that fast?"

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I don't know about where you live as I can only speak for myself. There was a guy in my High School graduating class who at the ripe old age of 17 was throwing a consistent 92 mph fastball (clocked), and on occasion he went slightly higher than that. He also had a devastating curveball, and knew all the old school pitches: knuckle, slider, screwball and sinker. No one in the entire area could touch him.

Say, how's the Knicks looking this year??

1. Shoeless Joe Jackson was not only a better ballplayer than Bonds, he was a better human being. The fact that he turned in the money he was offered proved that [And when the White Sox finally won the World Series a couple years back, Jackson was finally able to come home and rest. Not that the 'Field of Dreams' was not a home, if you understand the meaning of the movie].

2. Aaron and Marris competed and made their records the right way. 715 and 61 were done the old fashioned way...with hard work.

3. Here is a partial list of pitchers of the past modern era [60's and 70's] that Bonds could not hit even if he had a corked bat: Don Drysdale, Bob Gibson, Sandy Koufax, Tom Seaver, Al Downing, Whitey Ford, Dean Chance, Mickey Lolich, Jim Lonborg, Al Jackson, Jim Kaat, Steve Carlton, Jim Palmer, Jim 'Mudcat' Grant, Catfish Hunter, Nolan Ryan, Jim McAndrew, Tug McGraw, Ron Guidry, Don Cardwell, Wade Blasingame, J. R. Richard and a ton of others.

You claim the opposite is true, but you offer nothing to support your claim other than they make millions of dollars annually. While it is true that some major league baseball players make such sums the majority make far less and if you look at the minors they make far less than that! The same applies to all of the other major sports leagues. Then there are the tens of thousands who play college and high school ball and the millions who simply get together for scratch games on any given week night or weekend.

It seems that as far as you are concerned any form of cheating is permissible if that is what it takes to win and all I can say is that I thank the gods that be that you and your ilk are a very small minority!